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I found a Hardi sprayer I'm interested in, but the original PTO diaphragm pump was replaced with a hydraulically driven Ace centrifugal pump. Likely done as a cost savings when the original pump failed. Any drawbacks or advantages to the centrifugal pump?
Thats all we use is hydraulic ACE pumps, have the Hypo one, has no issues supplying 10g/a to a 60 foot boom at 11mph with agitation in the tank.
A diaphragm pump, like a piston pump, is a fixed displacement pump. They can produce much higher pressures and constant volume outputs (gallons/minute) at a given speed. Roller pumps, vane pumps, and gear pumps are all fixed displacement pumps as well. Rotary Centrifugal pumps are variable displacement pumps. They can produce marginally high pressures at high impeller RPM's, but have a variable volume delivery (gallons/minute) depending on the pressure... the higher the output pressure, the less volume they produce. That said, the spray nozzles don't care whether they're getting the pressure and fluid (spray or fertilizer solution) from a fixed or variable displacement pump. All they require is providing a continuous flow of fluid at the correct pressure to be delivered through the spray nozzle at the selected volume (based on pressure). Fixed displacement pumps tend to cause more "buzz" in the line, as pressure spikes from the intermittent delivery of fluid from each of the pumps diaphragm chambers or pistons, or the space between rollers or vanes or gear teeth in those type pumps, tends to cause minute pressure variations in the line. Piston and diaphragm pumps, due to their design, are usually worse about this, and often will use an accumulator in the system to dampen out the pressure spikes from the pump. Fixed displacement pump sprayers are usually controlled with a pressure regulator, which sets the system pressure at the nozzles to deliver the correct amount of volume through the nozzles (gallons per acre) based on speed of the sprayer and width of the boom (since speed times width equals area or acres per hour). Variable displacement pump sprayers typically have a volume type regulator (flow regulator) which bypasses excess flow to the agitator line returning to the tank to set the pressure at the nozzles to meter the spray out correctly. Of course most modern systems do this electronically with various electronically-controlled pressure or flow regulators. Basically, so long as the pump was sized correctly (not undersized) for the application (number of nozzles on the booms and desired deliver rate in gallons per acre (GPA) it doesn't really matter. Ace pumps are very forgiving of most materials (they're not that great with abrasive materials but then again nothing else is either). There's not much to go wrong with them, and parts are available. They're a nice pump. The diaphragm pumps have a TON of moving parts (a piston diaphragm and connecting rod or cam follower for EVERY diaphragm, plus and inlet and discharge check valve for every diaphragm, so usually 6 diaphragms and 12 valves per pump. They check valves can go to pot and then you're looking at a pretty expensive rebuild, and one by one one the diaphragms will quit pumping as the check valves fail. The centrifugal ace pumps have a couple bearings and a couple seals and that's pretty much it... One thing to bear in mind with the Hardi sprayers is, *ALL* their parts are *proprietary*... You can't just get parts "off the shelf" for Hardi's, unless you "graft them in"... their flange connections and stuff are totally different from everything else on the market, so you have to keep going back to them for parts, and paying more for the parts... Unless you just start "grafting in" aftermarket parts by connecting stuff up with hoses and hose barb fittings and stuff like that. Hardi makes a good sprayer but it has virtually ZERO commonality with typical "off the shelf" sprayer parts... Those Hardi diaphragm pumps are SO salty that's probably why the guy just grafted in an Ace pump... I think the Hardi pump is about $2 grand and and Ace pump is like $400-600...
I have a few sprayers with ace hydraulic pumps on them and they have treated me well they are on air blast sprayers where I need to spray and have a lot of water recirculating back to the tank. On our herbicide sprayers where re circulation isn't quite as important we use Comet Diaphragm pumps because of the corrosion resistance. Glyphosate is pretty corrosive and we were going through roller pumps once a year. I switched over to a used Comet pump i got from a grower going out of business and have been using it for 3 years now no issues. I am Not so sure how well an ace pump holds up to Round up in the long term as I have never used one for that purpose. Centrifugal pumps are good because they move a lot of water for the price and a diaphragm pump large enough to use an educator mixing venturi would be pretty pricey.
I have used Ace hydraulic pumps in boom sprayers for years. Never had any problems with them. I spray Glyphosate with ace pumps. Just clean them out after use.
M y current Sprayer has a centrifugal pump and works well . Unfortunately some sprayers are designed to work with a diaphragm pump . I Had a Canadian built sprayer and I switched it from diaphragm to centrifugal and it was a nightmare . The Diaphragm pump like Hardi uses has suction on the intake and on some Hardi models the pumps intake goes in threw the top of the tank down to the bottom of the tank and it drafts the product . Guys cut a port in the bottom of the tank for centrigal, but talk was there were complications . Not sure check it out . In some cases diaphragm to centrifugal not so easy
I have always ran Ace centrifugal pumps on field sprayers. My current sprayer is on its second pump and has probably sprayed about 250,000 gallons thru it (1500 acres per year @ 15 gpa). Ace pumps are cheap to overhaul and/or replace. I have a Lewis Bros. barn washer for the turkey barns with a hypro diaphragm pump. It will push 40 gpm @ 600 psi but I found out they are salty to replace. Bought the washer used and pump crapped out, only $3400 for a new one!
That's a very good point. The diaphragm pump would have the vacuum to pull from a top mounted supply, whereas the centrifugal would need to be primed first or use a bottom mounted supply for a gravity feed. Not sure how this particular model was originally built.
BIL has used Ace pumps in RR corn and beans for years and they hold up well. RU is corrosive and for roller pumps they highly recommend the "SilverCast" pump bodies and rotors because of that issue, because the silvercast alloy can handle the corrosiveness. Unfortunately SilverCast pumps are about 50% more in price last time I checked, so when we sprayed RU we'd just clean them out fastidiously several flushings with Nutra-Sol and water and then stored them in the barn with antifreeze or motor oil poured into them and caps installed.
If you install the banjo connector to fill the sprayer between the pump and suction line it will prime a tank-top suction line... That's how my brother in law's is set up even though his is a tank bottom fitting type. Hardi makes a good sprayer, but I don't like the "nothing fits but Hardi parts" problem with them... unless you want to go grafting everything together with hoses as stuff breaks, because they're almost as proud of their parts as JD is...
I have a lockwood hardi sprayer from the 70s, its a twin 40" fan air blast sprayer and they built that thing right. Use to be driven by a 170hp ford 6 cylinder diesel but now i have a 210hp 6v51n detriot in it and the fan was rated at 2000rpm but now i spin it at 2900rpm and it has held up many thousand of hours like that. They build a quality product.
I have a 50 gallon Hardi that still had all factory parts when I bought it. Everything is Hardi and nothing else will fit without conversion, even spray nozzles. The other thing I have found is that mine doesn't have the usual pump on it. It's original, and a Hardi, but the way mine is configured it doesn't match a particular model. I believe the John Deer dealers in this area used to be Hardi dealers, but they don't seem very interested anymore. Of course I'm not buying a lawn tractor, nor am I a BTO so even green parts orders don't receive any extra effort. I can get parts at another local dealership, but I have found it best to find part numbers, etc, directly from Hardi and then have them ordered.
paoutdoors - Where you able to get your unit working? I recently bought a similar Hardi. TR500 converted to Centrifugal. Any pointers?
Yes. Mine is a Navigator 550 and it's been working well. If the pump is completely drained - like over the winter, it helps to have about 100 gallon of water in the tank before starting the pump so it primes right away. The pump on a TR500 may be positioned just a little bit differently, but basically you'll want the water level in the tank up as high as the pump. My Navigator did draw from the bottom of the tank originally, and like endrow mentioned, you'll want to verify your TR500 does as well.
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