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The channel was man made about 30 years ago and over the years the weeds and other material that have floated down have caused about two feet of sediment build up. The channel was originally only about 5 ft deep so now that were down to about 3ft in most places we've decided to see if we can do anything about it. We've been considering renting a 3 or 4" trash pump and pumping the material up to a ditch/containment area we'll make. The ditch would be about 300ft away and 25 ft uphill.
The area we'd like to move is a very soft mud with a sandy bottom we're trying to reach. The area we'd like to clear is about 20x30' and we'd be fine with just clearing a few spots if the 20x30 area ends up being too large. Does anyone have any idea if this will work? How big/powerful of a pump will we need? How manuverable is the pump head will it need to be attached to the dock? Any insight would be great, we're just trying to get any idea of what we could do.
20 x 30 x 2 is about 44 cubic yards of stuff, figure thats 4-5 single axle dump truck loads...thats a pretty big trench. You might also run into issues with your local or state conservation commission or state agency on such an effort.
Do you have a water board or some kind of committe that you would have to go through in order to do this? Just asking cause our water board won't let anyone mess with dredging out there spots.
Before you do anything, you'd better contact your state water authority. DNR? I'm sure they will have some input to what is required for permits. I'd hate to see you end up with a fine. In Wisconsin, I've ssen them issue fines in the 10's of thousands for just moving a old tree stump.
It took me about a year to get the permit from the Army corp of Engineers. Tons of red tape. It was pretty easy to get a permit just around your dock, but a bit harder to get what we wanted.
Larry brought up a interesting fact on your idea and that's all the muck you pump out. That will most likely be another authority you'll need to deal with. Many land agencies will consider it hazardous waste and it will need to be tested. After the testing, then where you put it will be determined.
Get in touch with local dredging companies. Google pond dredging in your area. They can give you insight to the local ins and outs. The DNR/DEQ, or whatever they call themselves this year, will give you fits.
I will definitely have to look into the permitting process. As far as the lake itself though, it's small and private so there are only loosely organized associates which govern it and that’s primarily limited to road maintenance. I've heard that it is easier to get a permit if A) it was a space originally dredged and B) if it's to improve the navigability of the waterway, is that true? Would I be dealing with a local, state, or federal agency?
around here there is a slim to none chance of getting a permit. You might damage a fish habitat.
I had to do the work when there was no spawning. I also had to have silt fences, along with about a page of other stuff.
DHEC has really clamped down on waterways/wetlands. They have expanded their definitions to include many private ponds. Years ago they would let you build a pond on your land with little or no grief. DNR would even help out with stocking the pond. Today, you have to show "need" to build a pond,like feeding cattle, irrigation, etc. and even then it is hard to get the permit.
States own bodies of water even if all the land around it is privately held.
Most likely the county will be involved with the land issue but, if the area is close to being a "wet land". then the state would be involved with it as well. I hope it's not wet!!!!
Do not start the project without taking care of both the water and land. On land, you wouldn't build a house without a permit!!!
Oh we are a long way from actually doing anything, we are strictly trying to get info at this point. My post basically informed me I need to do a lot more research.
Although I do know that at least in this area you are able to do as much work as you'd like if you do it by hand.
Be careful with this method as well. I don't want to sound negative but these government agencies are going crazy with "back to nature/keep it natural" philosophies. I'd hate to see you get in trouble and have a $$$ fine to deal with.
I mention the removal of a old tree stump. It's the same for disturbing the lake bottom.
Yes, do all the investigating first. Keep us informed of what you find out.
Also finds a supportive civil engineer with wetland scientist specialties, and hire one. They are not all newt-higging hippies, many want to see people use the land and water. If you have a stamped plan your credibility improves talking to the state agencies.
You mentioned they draw the lake down in the fall?? I would say forget the pump and get an excavator in there, find someone to haul the stuff and you'll be much better off in my opinion.. And of secure the permits.
Looks like I'll need a local permit and possibly a water permit. Mrusso94 I think you're right we may have to reconsider our plan and possibly do this in the fall when the channel is nearly dry. With a large excavator and dump truck the work could probably be done in a few hours. The land opposite our bank of the channel is also association land and is dry and not too steep for an excavator, unlike our side.
We've decided that the excavator method when the lake is lowered would be the most desirable way to effectively clean out the channel. Hopefully we can get the permit process completed during the summer and then perform the work in November. Although we know that timeline is quite optimistic.
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