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I have a 1926 Model T touring and need to replace the water pump. The original pump seems like a lot of maintenance. I see a "leakless water pump" in the Snyders catalog that comes with a thermostat and flex hose for $243. Is this the way to go?
Original Model T's did not use water pumps. Most original Model T radiators have long since ceased to be heat exchangers because the tubes and fins are no longer continuous. Take the cost of a new radiator and amortize it over the years you want to enjoy your Model T without overheating problems and have fun. Give some consideration to spending your money on a new flat tube radiator and enjoy your Model T like it was from the factory.
There's no such thing as an "original" Model T water pump. Just remove it and replace it with the stock hose.
I have been reading old forums. I did not know they came without water pumps. I also have a 1917 I am restoring. That too has a water pump. I thought it was required.
If the car overheats with the stock pipe and hoses, put the water pump money toward a new Berg radiator.
One of the joys of the unique model T is the "thermosyphon" or thermobarf system. Heat circulated, no waterpump. I got a new Bergs radiator and the car runs so cool, without the fanbelt even. Water stays in the system better too. Keep the pump as a collectable accessory, but buy and install the radiator if your old one is not up to the job.
When I bought our Coupe, and before restoration, it had a water pump and an original accessory radiator that overheated regularly while at idle. Upon restoration of the engine as well as the rest of the car, I purchased a "new" radiator and tossed the water pump on the swap meet pile. I drove our car at idle in a parade for an hour today with the temp on the motometer indicating well below summer avg despite our nearly 70 degree weather today.
Pitch the pump.
Or send it to me, as I like to rebuild them, then just collect them. Why? Just makes a good project to take up your extra mental energy. Like therapy. Do as you wish as it is your car. Most of the options have been listed above. These pumps were a popular period accessory. I guess it was cheaper than a new radiator. Other cars had them. One less thing taking power from the engine if you leave it off. As I mentioned above, my engine does not turn a water pump, fan belt, or generator at the moment.
When I got my 27 Touring in 1994 it had a leaking water pump. I removed it and now have no leaks. I also do not have any overheating problems even with the original round tube radiator. As long as the car is moving I don't even need the fan belt. I think my experience is probably normal. If the cooling system is clean and not blocked you should be good to go.
The problem is not overheating without a waterpump, but running too cool most of the time without a thermostat. That's why so many people run those expensive extra hot X sparkplugs, to keep #1 from fouling while running too cool. I've always run a 180 thermostat and a waterpump, and for many years now, no fan. Most T waterpumps are fairly easy to rebuild. I would not run a waterpump without a thermostat. Overheating is easily caused by running retarded spark.
Here is some more of the same advice. Spend the money on the radiator. If your tanks are OK a new core is not much more than a new waterpump. Only make sure the shop understands that the hight is important. I run a water pump, but only because the kids like to seee it running.
The best money I have spent on my T (and the first apart from the purchase) is the new element in the radiator. I've never had a waterpump.
I have an old aftermarket low style flat tube radiator on my '25 coupe, that should have a high style radiator. No water pump, thermostat, X plugs, and I use a fan. I have had no problems, and I have ran the crap out of this car, plowed mud, parades, climbed hills, and ran down the road as hard as it will go,including 100 degree heat. The best thing that I can say is, get a good flat tube radiator, and drive the crap out of your car. Save the money for a water pump and put it towards a good radiator.
I think Langs sell a new thermosyphon water pump.
WOW. This is the first time I have done this forum and certainly glad I did. Thanks everyone. You have been a big help. I think now that I need 2 things to take the water pump off. The angled hose connection that bolts to the engine and a shorter fan belt. Can anyone tell me what length fan belt I need to get?
Also--Does anyone know where I can purchase that angled radiator hose fitting that bolts to the engine to eliminate the water pump? I have a Snyders and MAC antique autor parts book and it is not in either one.
Upon removing the waterpump, don't throw it away. It will make a great wheel chock.
I finally spent the money on a new flat tube Bergs radiator for my 24 Coupe and cured my overheating problems. I had a water pump on my 1919 Roadster and soon found out it didnt cool any better with it on the engine. Wasted my money. Two things you definately need on a Modelt T if you want to drive it fairly regularly. Good or new tires (not cracked or 40+ years old tires) and a recored or better yet a new radiator. You will be amazed at the difference and money saved in the long run.
the part you want is #3015, and Ford called it the cylinder water inlet connector. I'd start with Model T Haven. If Mark doesn't have one, call the usual dealers: Lang's, Bob's, Chaffin's, Snyder's. Most of them have used parts that aren't in the catalogues. If you don't find one from any of those sources, I can suggest a couple more people to call.
you'll also need a third thing: another metal water tube that fits between the maleable iron inlet connection and the bottom of the radiator. Some people have skipped this metal tube preferring to connect the inlet connection and radiator bottom with a length of rubber hose. Don't do it !! When coolant warms up, the rubber hose will collapse causing overheating.
If you intend to use a pump on your car, don't buy a reproduction. Get an old one and rebuild it. Since you have a '26, be sure to get one that has the holes in the side for the horn.
Hang the pump on nail in your garage for display. I have run my car in 100 degree temps in a parade with no problems.
I'm in the "dump the pump" camp as well as a strong supporter of Berg radiators. I posted last week my experience touring for over an hour with 3 guys in my '25 Fordor in 110 degree Arizona heat. Zero problems, maximum fun. Spend your pump money on a good radiator. When I show my T, I display a placard listing the many things a STOCK Model T does not have. You all know the list. I like to include the lack of a water pump. Starts many a conversation.
Langs 3015 - water inlet 3016 - bolts (if you want new ones) 3018 - gasket 3944S - hose set 3939 - pipe Then take a string out to your car and place the string around the pulleys to measure the length of your new fan belt. You might as well plan on draining, flushing, and new antifreeze (unless you just put in new antifreeze). That should do it.
I was in two parades over the weekend at 101 degrees. We had a group of 5 Model T's. No water pumps. No one had any overheating problems.
Here are the required items for a waterpump replacement kit. This list is a few years old, so prices may vary. No. Part # Description Cost 1 3015 Cylinder Water Inlet Connection 21.95 1 3016 Cylinder Water inlet Connection Bolt Set .70 1 3018 Cylinder Water Inlet Gasket .30 1 3939 Radiator Outlet Connection Pipe 6.95 1 3944S 3Piece Red Hose Set 6.95 1 3945S Original Style Hose Clamp Set 3.50 1 3964G 31 Fan Belt 13.50 Total Cost $53.85
In 26-27, Ford made a thin radiator, I don't remember the number of core rows, but it didn't work out well and a lot of these cars ended up with water pumps to aid in the cooling. The quickest way to figure out if you have one, is the length of the fan hub.
Some (or so I thought) after market radiators only had two rows of tubes. My T had one that looked great, but did not cool. When I bought a new Brassworks radiator, it had five rows of tubes and held almost a gallon more of water. I could not install it though, until I found a short fan pulley.
We removed the water pump from the 27 we bought and installed a new radiator. Last week I went for a 50 mile cruise and sat idling for almost 10 minutes in 90 degree heat. The car never got near overheating. Amazingly the lower tank hardly ever gets to 120F!
One thing I don't see mentioned: sometimes the water jacket in the back of the head and the back of the block will clog up with rust. Also, head gasket could be on wrong. A recent purchase of another T came with a water pump (and an external oil leak at the head gasket). It didn't run overly hot, but hotter than I though was reasonable for having the pump. To remedy the leak, I pulled the head and found the back passage all but blocked. Same with the block. Got to dig out lots of rusty crud. The last person installed a rusty surfaced head on the gasket, and it likely never really sealed that well from the start. Though it never leaked coolant or showed up in a stumble, it certainly leaked some oil from the rear cylinder after a 150 mile day...very careful inspection could barely detect "sizzling" of the compression through the oil on the side of the engine. As I prepared to scrape the carbon from the deck of the engine, I realized that the head gasket was on backwards, further retarding the already restricted water flow. Now that the water jackets are clear, and the head gasket is on correctly, this is one cool running car...time to remove the waterpump (which was likely added to relieve the restricted water flow). If you have a thermocouple, you may wish to check how hot the rear of the head runs compared to, say, the middle. It will naturally be hotter, but if it's REALLY hotter, then you may have a restriction which (in the mind of the previous owner) necessitated the addition of a pump.
Thanks to everyone for all the great advice. I am in the process of removing the pump. I am glad I tried this forum. You are all great people who want to help. I want to tell something about my head gasket. I went to start it last summer and the engine was stuck. I took the head off and found that the head gasket was bad or something and leaked water into a cylinder. I was able to clean it up and installed new pistons. I drain the coolant now before winter. I live in Minnesota where it gets to 20 bellow zero sometime. Lots of expansion and contraction while sitting. I think this might be a good practice to do on any car that does not run a lot.
Dennis mentioned something above worth paying attention to, especially if a radiator change or core change is done. In 26, Ford did build some cars with 2 row flat tube and 3 row round tube radiators. Because of the difference in the thickness of the cores, a long and a short pulley/fan hub were used depending on the thickness of cores. Obviously, this was done to place the fan at the right distance from the radiator. By 27, I think the 2 row flat tubes had disappeared from production. Unless it is out of reason with your budget, I agree a new radiator made by Berg's or Brassworks will go a lot further to solving averheating than any pump. I had a pump on my grandfather's 27 coupe and when I pulled it to replace the block with a correct year block, I found the pump and the block inlet hole were filled with a foreign material which I can only describe as being the consistancy of thick oatmeal or mud. Then I was glad I didn't try to run that block, one last time.
I ended up changing the (probably 3 row) radiator in my car not long after I put in the new engine. The original one was 'adequate' with the original, worn out, engine but with the new (and heavily modified) engine, it would boil over if I was idling for any length of time. Also, the original radiator had 'problems'. The screw bracket for the strut that went to the firewall was loose inside the tank and no amount of soldering would keep it from breaking loose again. I knew I was in trouble as soon as I tried to install the new Brassworks radiator, the fan was directly up against the core. That's when I learned (thanks to the guys here), that there were different radiators and fan hubs for the "Improved Cars". Now, with the new radiator and the high compression engine, I could probably let it idle all day. By the way, if somebody needs a radiator real bad, that used to be in a 27 Tudor I have one sitting out in my shed. The bottom tank and the core don't leak but the top tank needs to come off and that firewall bracket needs to be re-riveted in, correctly. It's yours for the price of shipping.
Before you pay 600- 800 bucks for a new radiator try this: Drain the radiator, unscrew the drain cock til it's loose in the radiator, go to the grocery store and get a bottle of CLR in the cleaning dept. Refill the radiator with plain water and add a half a bottle of CLR. run the car @ idle til good and hot,20 min at least.CAREFULLLY remove the drain plug and drain the radiator refill with plain water ,let it run a while and drain again. Refill a gain and add a half cup of bakeing soda.run again Drain again and refill with the coolant of your choice. dont forget to screw the drain cock back tight. Next make sure all the fins are straight inside and out. now with air or a garden hose blow out all the spaces between the tubes, a lot of bugs and chaff in there. Don't paint the fins with black paint, get radiatr paint and apply sparingly at an angle. I've done this to three old radiators . No overheating afterwards. If it doesn't work you're only out a few bucks and 2 hours time.
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